Curse

haggus71 · Sep 06, 2007, 10:32 PM // 22:32

First, to those who compare use grind in a job to grind in game....it's a GAME. A challenge is something that tests your skill, your abilities. Grind isn't a challenge to a lot of people. Any ape zone in, kill everything, zone out, rinse, repeat. If people wanted that, hell, they would find the extra 15 bucks out of their beer money and play WoW or some Korean MMO.

All I'm saying is, make more than one way to earn the points. Going through all 18 dungeons is just as much work(and much more challenging) as talking to the same Norn shrine guy so much he says, "Fvck! You again?" Anet seems like they try to satisfy as many players as possible. Well, giving more points for storyline and playing through the game seems to be an easy way to satisfy those who want to work for the points, just not work in a grind.

Better this than pissing off people who you will have to rely on for word-of-mouth when GW2 is ready.

haggus71 · Sep 06, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

If you go through the whole storyline of the Norn, without spending extra hours doing the grinding burn-and pillage of a whole area, you will not have 26k norn points. Even killing every monster as you zone in and out for the quest will not get you that. Where does that fit the "journey"? And being a smart ass saying it's like bitching about pre-searing actually brings up a point. The whole point of why people liked Prophecies so much WAS THE F'IN JOURNEY! You were immersed in a storyline from start to finish, and could get everything along the way. Enough money and items dropped, from the missions and from exploring around the southern Shiverpeaks and Fire Islands, that you could afford the 15k armor if you were smart about it. And you gained access to it by following the story!

Saying life is a journey is supposed to mean that you are supposed to enjoy the journey, not just be looking toward the end. You really need to look at why people are bitching about having to do so much to get to this armor. It means they don't enjoy the game enough to want to go through what it takes to get the armor. Which means that, if this has to hold a fan base for 18 months, Anet is in deep trouble.

Oh, and quoting yourself? What was the court saying? Any man who represents himself has an idiot for a client?

jkyarr · Sep 06, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

If you go through the whole storyline of the Norn, without spending extra hours doing the grinding burn-and pillage of a whole area, you will not have 26k norn points. Even killing every monster as you zone in and out for the quest will not get you that. Where does that fit the "journey"? And being a smart ass saying it's like bitching about pre-searing actually brings up a point. The whole point of why people liked Prophecies so much WAS THE F'IN JOURNEY! You were immersed in a storyline from start to finish, and could get everything along the way. Enough money and items dropped, from the missions and from exploring around the southern Shiverpeaks and Fire Islands, that you could afford the 15k armor if you were smart about it. And you gained access to it by following the story!

Saying life is a journey is supposed to mean that you are supposed to enjoy the journey, not just be looking toward the end. You really need to look at why people are bitching about having to do so much to get to this armor. It means they don't enjoy the game enough to want to go through what it takes to get the armor. Which means that, if this has to hold a fan base for 18 months, Anet is in deep trouble.

Oh, and quoting yourself? What was the court saying? Any man who represents himself has an idiot for a client?

Thanks for not really disagreeing with my concept of what a grind is and isn't. I think I was pretty clear about my stance, meaning if what you claim is true...

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

If you go through the whole storyline of the Norn, without spending extra hours doing the grinding burn-and pillage of a whole area, you will not have 26k norn points.

Then I would agree that an adjustment should be in order. It seems clear to me that there are varying experiences with the "grindy-ness" of these title tracks among players. Perhaps a poll would be in order to see how the chips fall... Not an opinion poll, mind you. A factual poll.

Option 1: I earned all the needed ranks in title X to access the Armor NPCs without being forced to re-instance the same encounters multiple times for the express purpose of earning title points. (NO GRIND)
Option 2: I earned all the needed ranks in title X to access the Armor NPCs but I chose to farm a zone that I preferred over other locations in order to get the ranks I needed (CHOSE TO GRIND)
Option 3:I earned all the needed ranks in title X to access the Armor NPCs but was unable to do so without having to replay the same areas or encounters numerous times just to earn the needed title rank. (FORCED TO GRIND)

If anyone knows how to do a poll please feel free. I've not done one before and I'm headed out the door right now.

I couldn't disagree with you more about Prophecies. Out of all the content it was the most grindy game they've done. If you want evidence that Anet agrees with my perspective then just look at the XP awards for whatever missions or quests you'd deem to be of equal difficulty comparing one stand alone game to the other. The paltry 500xp per whatever in Prophecies was mind numbing. Compared with the 3000xp per comprable whatever in Factions or Nightfall is much better gameplay wise. Loot, gold and other rewards are the same story.

As for my idocy... I don't believe that was ever put into question nor was it the topic of this thread. But thanks! I think you're special too.

draxynnic · Sep 07, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar

/beginrant...

People seem to be forgetting the fact that in NF you would need to grind a few monsters to progress in the game, and people were fine with that.

There is a significant difference...

In Nightfall, you could pick up the Sunspear points you need quite easily simply by running around doing quests and picking up bounties along the way. Heck, the first time I went through Nightfall I got to Castellan while I was only halfway through Vabbi! Ergo, no grind.

In EotN, this isn't the case. One of my characters has completed the primary quests and all the (known) above-ground quests for the Ebon Vanguard, and is still only sitting at the halfway point between R3 and R4. In order to get to R5 - let alone higher to get those skills at a reasonable level without resorting to the Illusions Signet - is going to require some mindless monster killing. Even some simple repeatable quests - raid a supply caravan, assassinate a leader, and so on - could help relieve the tedium, especially if some randomness could be introduced into the repeatable (have a number of locations where the target may be, and in the case of bosses, a set of fragments from which a random composite name can be produced, and so on).

In a way, there are some benefits towards the system - economically speaking, it spreads out the demand for material to make the new armours rather than having it all hit at once as it has with previous additions to the franchise. On the flipside, however, the story reason is a bit silly - it does stretch the suspension of disbelief when you've pretty much rescued the entire organisation from destruction (between the Defense of the Eye master quest and the Ebon Vanguard primary quest), then done everything that the Ebon Vanguard officers can ask you to do, and you still get the Tom, (Richard) and Teardrinker line out of the Ebon Vanguard armorer.

In short - if you've done all the quests for a particular faction, you should be enough of a hero in their eye to have unrestricted access to the crafters. I'd probably argue for this to be done by increasing the number of quests (and possibly increasing the Ebon Vanguard rep rewards for the primary quest to Asura levels - a quick survey of Vanguard primaries only shows 750 rep for the whole thing, compared to 3000 Asura points for Finding the Bloodstone alone) rather than decreasing the requirements, however.

Punjabi · Sep 07, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Signed, I agree armour shouldnt be easy to get but I don't call getting a stupid title hard. Go kill monsters for hours. This is a PRIME example of what GW vowed a few years ago they wanted to get away from that was the grind in an MMO. To give players a no-sht chance to play the game and have fun without hours of boring tasks. Now they start this. I fear GW2 is going to be a spitting image of WoW. Maybe put the crafter at the end of a hard dungeon juke FoW armour. It's not easy and no title required.

4ssassin · Sep 07, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

/signed

anyone remember "Guild Wars, the game the rewards skill, not time played."
You know..it was Anet's primary advertising slogan at the beginning of Guild Wars Prophecies?

Anyone remember that? Cause I think we can safely say that Anet themselves has forgotten all about i.

4thVariety · Sep 07, 2007, 05:31 AM // 05:31

There is no grind to unlock armors. There is no repetitve "doing stuff for hours". Let me give you an example for the Asura title:

Doing all Asura faction quests ONCE: 11.500 Asura-Faction
Clearing all Asura areas ONCE: ~ 10.000 Asura Faction

Done, you get the armor unlocked. Is that really too much to ask? Why does everybody expect that he only has to take a rusher to Rata Sum to buy whatever he wants? Is playing the game ONCE properly asking too much?

The same is true for all other factions as well. Most people overlook the fact that the dungeon can give up to 3000 points for one of the four factions. Sure, killing the enemies WITHIN the dungeon will go to the Delver title. Killing the boss and completing the dungeon's quest will trigger a huge reward for the faction that gave you that quest. (e.g Shards of Orr = 3000 Asura Faction points). When clearing the areas of enemies you will get around 10 points per kill IF you can kill all enemies. The rewards start off slow at 1 point per kill, but soon this will be upgraded multiple times and you also gain additional rewards after 25 kills, or get some "special hunt" bunus, e.g. +10per kill for a limited time. Clearing the area around Rata Sum from the 310 enemies who live there will give you 3200 Asura Faction.

The only thing in dire need of fixing is your perspective on the game's mechanics. Fact is that you will get the armor for completing the quest chain. Anything beyond that rank 5, that is the grind for fun and profit. But there is little to nothing attached to that.

Div · Sep 07, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

Anet does 2 things:

1. Anet introduces new titles, which allow you to access cool armor crafters and such. Cool.

2. Anet provides NO WAY TO INCREASE THESE TITLES other then to go around killing things over and over and over again. Quests and such will only get you so far... not far at all!

Therefore, this petition calls for the enactment of one of two options:

1. Remove the requirement of titles from the crafters

2. Provide a way to gain title points OTHER than constant meaningless grind, such as a repeatable quest with a nice reward or a huge bonus for vanquishing an area or SOMETHING.

lrn2dungeon

/notsigned

haggus71 · Sep 07, 2007, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Learn to elaborate in English. Dungeons, if you read how the points are given out, do not give more than 500 points, tops, for a category. They are divided among all the titles. Most quests give 200 or less. A few give none. Ergo, if you want NORN points, the NORN quests do not give you enough points. You have to do them over and over again.

If they even increased it to 500 rep points for every quest, that would give 9500 rep points, because you do get 1000 for doing the whole Northern Allies thread. Add NORMAL exploration, and the lvl 5 everyone wants is doable without having to sweep-and-clear the Falls area over and over again.

Someone in another thread said some ridiculous thing about "All the people who like the game don't post. They are playing it." If you are on the forums any, you are into the game enough that you want the best information about playing the game. You care about the game play more than the average player. The "average player", if the game is doing something to make it less fun to play, instead of trying to give their opinion to others and to Anet, will just quit playing. After all, for the price of most MMO's per month, you could cut out 2-3 espresso drinks at Starbuck's.

4thVariety · Sep 07, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

A 100% correct list of faction rewards for dungeons can be found here. If you need to see a list of the quests and their factions reward, then click here. Doing the Norn stuff without grinding is more than enough to unlock the armor. But you will have to play the game. Rushing and quickfarming won't cut it this time.

Surena · Sep 07, 2007, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

/notsigned

Soon as people have to work its GRIND GRIND

Whenever you start working or quit welfare you'll notice what work really is. Until then enjoy your student's life and sleep 14h a day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnai

/ not signed

You don't HAVE to have the armor from the crafters.

Yeah, another of these intelligent postings.

I WANT the armor, got it? It's one simple set, nothing more. I wonder what harm it would do if it was easier to get and the repetitive grind taken away. Bore you sooner?

Right, that's why you don't HAVE to play/grind all the time and do something else instead. It's the best way to stretch out game experience and become less bored.

kradens · Sep 07, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

grinding titles and buying armor should not be related.

titles should be totally optional and not forced upon the player.

and buying armor is novelty, something that a player should be able to do without having to fullfill tonnes of other requirements, (eg, kill 60 thousand monster, jump over and lake and speak to the bloodfish -__-).

what you want to ask yourself is that do you want a title for EVERY LAST thing in the game? it's ridiculous, the titles are even of a tasteless matter - its just about killing hundreds of the same monsters in a minute number of areas over and over again. who by far have the worst drop rates of anything in all the campaigns - just to add.

it does not matter that you do not consider it a grind because bottom line is armor and optional titles should not be related. i have not needed to grind a title untill now.

Shai Lee · Sep 07, 2007, 11:25 AM // 11:25

/not signed

As others have stated:
- level 5 is achieveable
- armor would be too easy to get (Note: *directs attention to all the Elite Sunspear Ele armor that flooded GW* People would complain that while they loved the armor, seeing so many people wear it in a flood made them sick of it quickly. Now think of other armor like Vabbi that maybe takes longer to save for or the gems weren't so easy to get, therefore that armor hasn't flooded the masses and made you sick of it so readily.)

Mr_Cynical · Sep 07, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

/notsigned

If you have time to farm 50k worth of gold, you have time to farm 26k worth of Norn/Dwarf/Asura/Vanguard points. If you don't want to grind to get prestige armour, go to Elona - Ancient armour is gorgeous!

Frigus X · Sep 07, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

/not signed

Getting R5 is easy - just do the quests and you'll get R5 soon enough. Not even needed to 'grind'.

rohara · Sep 07, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shai Lee

/not signed

As others have stated:
- level 5 is achieveable
- armor would be too easy to get (Note: *directs attention to all the Elite Sunspear Ele armor that flooded GW* People would complain that while they loved the armor, seeing so many people wear it in a flood made them sick of it quickly. Now think of other armor like Vabbi that maybe takes longer to save for or the gems weren't so easy to get, therefore that armor hasn't flooded the masses and made you sick of it so readily.)

- its not achievable by just playing through the storyline, you have to farm to get it. which might be fine if you have one or two characters...but what about those of us who have 8 or 9 or 10+ and want to experience EoTN on all of them? that's beyond grind, that's just bloody painful and discouraging.
- didja ever think people bought that elite sunspear ele armor because its just an awesome armor, not because its easy or hard to get? or that lots of people didn't buy vabbian armor cuz they think its ugly or the gems cost made it not worth it? i'm pretty sure the vast majority of players buy armor they find aesthetically pleasing - not buy the expensive stuff just to grow their e-peen. (though plenty of the FoW e-peen people exist, i'll admit) up until now, the only challenge in getting armor is gathering the materials and gold to buy them, and getting to the outpost/town where the armor is sold. why change it now? grinding my way to rank 5 isn't going to make my elite armor feel any more special - in fact, i'm going to resent it. i worked for my gold and materials, and worked my way to the outposts where the armor is sold. its not like people aren't willing to work for their armor, they just don't want to senselessly grind a title for it. i don't want the stupid title, i just want new armors available to me.

Shai Lee · Sep 07, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

I have 10 characters. I love the norn ranger armor so definitely getting that. I've seen at least 3 or 4 more armors for other characters I may get. Some I just don't like for some characters. So far my ele is going through the story, barely at Olfstead and already into rank 3, and that's considering I still have a log full of quests. Also lots to explore so I'm sure I'll be wandering into a zone more than once for more points. I also wanted a crown and Zho's journal so I did the Bison thing over and over and more pts there. Therefore for me, it's not grind, it's playing the game. Everyone plays differently I suppose.

Of course I've thought those things, I myself love the ele ancient armor when a lot of people don't like it. It's about what I love and willing to do to get get. The thing is, they lowered the rank as is for the armors, it's at 5. To me, that's doable. If the rank was like 8 or 10, then I probably would have signed this unless the armor is so glorious that I thought it was worth it. But the fact remains that they already lowered it to rank 5, which I think is enough. I've heard some say they wish it remained higher because coming into GW:EN, people knew this was for level 20 characters and things weren't necessarily meant to be handed out. And a certain amount of 'grind' has been around. People like luxon and kurzick armor too but they still had to get that 10k faction to get into the outposts for each character, whether their goal was to complete the storyline or get armor.

Fitz Rinley · Sep 07, 2007, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

/not signed

armor would be to easy to get then

The only people for whom the armor would be too easy to get are those who purchase programs to run their character for them while they are busy with real life. Grind is unentertaing bullsh*^! Further, grind only supports the elitest toilet paper who have a need to look down upon and berate others.

I am fully for anything that reduces or eliminates the need to grind.

/signed

TempusReborn · Sep 07, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

/not signed

While your at for the people moaning why dont you have it that theres no rare skin weapons either - who wants to work for anything, right?

BlackSephir · Sep 07, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Grinding = working?
Hur, hur, hur, that's something new. I thought "work" requires some effort.